live and michigan. the race for the rek nomination for president could change dramatically. florida and ohio each have a large number of delegates at stake and they award all of them to the candidate who wins. they're winner take all states. that's the first time that will happen in this primary season and this is the last debate

before that critical round of voting. we hope tonight the candidates will give the voters specifics on their visions for america. so now let's welcome to candidates. ohio governor john kasich. senator ted cruz of texas. [ applause ] real estate developer and businessman donald trump. [ applause ] senator marco rubio of florida. [ applause ] ladies and gentlemen, the republican candidates for president of the united states.

before we begin this evening, we want to remember former first lady nancy reagan who passed away this week. her funeral will be held tomorrow, and we would like to take a moment of silence to remember nancy reagan. now please rise for our national anthem performed by the frost singers from the university of miami. ♪ o say, can you see by the dawn's early light ♪

♪ what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? ♪ ♪ whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight ♪ ♪ o'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming? ♪ ♪ and the rockets' red glare the bombs bursting in air ♪ ♪ gave proof through the night that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave ♪ ♪ o'er the land of the free

♪ and the home of the brave? [ applause ] >> thanks to the frost singers from the university of miami. candidates you can now take your positions behind the podiums while i briefly explain the rules. as moderator, i will attempt to guide the discussion asking questions and follow-ups. joining me in the questioning this evening will be "washington times" reporter stephen dinan, cnn chief political correspondent dana bash and salem radio's hugh hewitt. candidates, you will have one minute and 15 seconds to answer each question and 45 seconds to respond to follow-ups or rebuttals if your name is invoked. timing lights will be visible. they'll warn you when time is up. and as you requested, a bell will also sound like this.

we know that each of you wants to debate these important issues but please wait until you are called upon, and please do not talk over one another. these are the rules to which all of you agreed. our goal this evening is a serious debate on the issues. it's time now for opening statements. you'll each have 30 seconds. governor kasich, we will start with you. >> well, thank you. you know, i look in the faces of people all across this country, and i know they want to be hopeful. and many are hopeful. look, i can talk conservative policies to the white house, washington, to restore the strength of our economy. but i also want to transfer power, money and influence to where you live. because i believe the strength in this country rests in the neighborhoods, the families, the communities and our states. and i believe it's a new partnership. a partnership that can allow us to restore the spirit of america and strengthen america for the best century we've ever had. thank you. [ applause ] >> senator rubio? >> every election is important.

i believe this is the most important election in a generation. because what's at stake in this election is not simply what party is going to be in charge or which candidate wins. what's at stake is our identity as a nation and as a people. for over two centuries, america has been an exceptional nation. now the tomb has come for this generation to do what it must do to keep it that way. if we make the right choice in this election, our children will be the freest and most prosperous americans that have ever lived and the 21st century will be a new american century. [ applause ] >> senator cruz. >> 59 years ago, florida welcomed my father to america as he stepped off the ferryboat from cuba on to key west. he was 18. he was filled with hopes and dreams, and yet in the freest land on the face of the earth. this election, this debate is not about insults or attacks. it's not about any individuals on this stage.

this election is about you and your children. it's about the freedom america has always had. and making sure that that freedom is there for the next generation that we stop washington from standing in the way of the hard-working taxpayers of america. [ applause ] >> mr. trump. >> one of the biggest political events anywhere in the world is happening right now with the republican party. millions and millions of people are going out to the polls and they are voting. they are voting out of enthusiasm. they are voting out of love. some of these people, frankly, have never voted before. 50 years old, 60 years old, 70 years old. never voted before. we're taking people from the democrat party. we're taking people as independences. independents. they're all coming out and the whole world is talking about it. it's very exciting. i think, frankly, the republican establishment, or whatever you

want to call it, should embrace what's happening. we're having millions of extra people join. we are going to beat the democrats. we are going to beat hillary or whoever it may be. and we're going to beat them soundly. [ applause ] >> thank you. thank you. let's begin with jobs and the economy which republican voters say is the most important issue to them in this election. there have been some real differences expressed on this stage on whether trade deals have been good for the american worker. mr. trump's signature issues is ending what he calls disastrous trade deals in order to bring jobs back to america. governor kasich, i'd like to start with you. you've been a strong advocate for these strong deals. critics say these deals are great for corporate america's bottom line but have cost the u.s. at least 1 million jobs. how do you respond to the criticism that you've been catering to boardrooms at the expense of the middle class?

>> i grew up in a blue collar family. the simple fact of the matter is, of course, we're sensitive about trade. 1 out of 5 americans work in a job connected to trade. 38 million americans are connected to it. but my position has always been we want to have free trade, but fair trade. and i've been arguing all along that it is absolutely critical that when other countries break those agreements, we don't turn the process over to some international bureaucrat who comes back a couple years later and says, oh, america was right and people are out of work. the fact of the matter is we have to have an expedited process. when people cheat, when countries cheat and they take advantage of us, we need to blow the whistle. and as president of the united states, i absolutely will blow the whistle and begin to stand up for the american worker. we don't want to lock the doors and pull down the blinds and leave the world because, frankly, if we do that, prices will go up. people will buy less.

other people will be out of work. and we don't want to see that happen. trade, though, has to be balanced, and we have to make sure that when we see a violation like some country, dumping their products into this country, believe me, as president, i will stand up and i will shut down those imports because they are a violation of the agreement we have. and the american worker expects us to stand up and, jake, my family worked in the steel industry, not with a white collar. i understand their plight. >> mr. trump, your critics say your campaign platform is inconsistent with how you run your businesses, noting you've brought in foreign workers instead of hiring americans and your companies manufacture clothing in china and mexico. why should voters trust that you'll run the country differently from how you run your businesses? >> because nobody knows the system better than me. i know the h1b, the h2b. i'm a businessman. these are laws. these are regulations. these are rules. we're allowed to do it.

frankly, because of the devaluations that's other countries, the monetary devaluations that other countries are constantly doing and brilliantly doing against us, it's very, very hard for our companies in this country, in our country to compete so i will take advantage of it. they are the laws. but i'm the one that knows how to change it. nobody else on this stage knows how to change it like i do. believe me. >> senator rubio, last october you said that you're quote, generally very much in favor of free trade. more recently you've backed away from your support of some trade deals. if elected, will you support free trade deals, even if it means the inevitable loss of u.s. jobs? >> no, i support free trade deals that are good for america. we're 5% of the world's population. if all we do is sell things do each other, we can only sell to 5% of the people on earth. we have to have access to the hundreds of millions of people in the world today who can afford to buy things. the problem is we're a low tariff country. to import something into the united states is not very expensive. but many of these countries we

can't export to because their tariffs are too high. i'm in favor of deals that allow us to bring down those tariffs so america can sell things to people all around the world. there are good trade deals and bad ones. here in florida we've benefited from the free trade deal with colombia. it's allowed flower exporters to come into the united states but created jobs for hundreds of people who are now delivering those flowers and working in that industry. we have a surplus with colombia. on the other hand you've seen trade deals in mexico less than promising in some aspects, better in others. i believe that america, if given access to foreign markets, our workers are the most productive in the world. our people are the most innovative on this planet. if it's a free and fair trade deal we can compete against anyone in the world and we need to in the 21st century. >> senator cruz, you were a supporter of the pacific trade deal, but after taking some heat from conservatives you changed your position. why should these voters who don't like these trade deals

trust that you will fight for them all the time and not just in election years? >> actually that's incorrect. there are two different agreements. there's tpa and tpp. i opposed tpp and have always opposed tpp. when it comes to trade, look, free trade, when we open up foreign markets, helps americans. but we're getting kills in international trade right now. and we're getting killed because we have an administration that's doesn't look out for american workers and jobs are going overseas. we're driving jobs overseas. and the people who are losing out are manufacturing jobs, or the steel industry or auto industry. but i'll tell you who else is going to be losing out, which is the service industry. this obama administration is negotiating the trade of services agreement which is another treaty to allow services to come in and take jobs from americans as well. and you have to understand. trade and immigration are interwoven, and they are hurting the working men and women of this country. so the question is, what's the solution? it's easy to talk about the problems.

but do you have a solution to fix it? i think the solution is several things. number one, we need to negotiate trade deals protecting american workers first, not the corporate board room. number two, we need to lift the regulations on american businesses here so we see jobs coming back. and number three, we need a tax plan like the tax plan i've introduced that will not tax exports and will tax imports and that will bring millions of high-paying jobs back to america. >> let's talk more about how american jobs are impacted by foreign workers. let's go to stephen dinan of the "washington times." >> senator rubio in late 2014, disney laid off 250 tech workers in orlando replacing many with foreign workers. some of the americans even had to train their own replacements. you support increasing the h1b visa program that made it possible to bring in these foreign workers. doesn't this program take jobs away from americans? >> if it's being abused the way disney did. understand that program, it is

illegal now under that program to use it to replace american workers. you have to prove you're not replacing americans but you've tried to hire americans. if a company is caught abusing that process they should never be allowed to use it again. the second problem with the current structure of the program that people perhaps don't understand is a lot of these companies are not directly hiring employees from abroad. they are hiring a consulting company out of india. that company hoards up all of these visas. they hire workers. you hire disney or some other company hours a this company. what they are doing is insourcing and outsourcing. they are bringing in workers from abroad that are not direct employees of disney or someone else. they are employees of this consulting business. what i argue is that no consulting business such as that should be allowed to hoard up all of these visas. the visas should only be available for companies to use to directly hire workers and we should be stricter in how he enforce it. it's illegal now. it is a violation of the law now

to use that program to replace americans. and if a company is caught doing that, whether it be disney or anyone else, they should be barred from using the program in the future. >> senator rubio, real quick follow-up on this. a in the context of illegal immigration you've called for basically putting off any legalization process until we get the border secured. why not call for a pause on h1bs until those abuses are solved. >> i'd be open to it if it takes a pause. i don't think it takes a pause to enforce the law. if they are using that program to replace an american, if there's an american working at disney and they bring someone from another country using h1b to replace their direct job, that's in violation of the law. what i'm explaining to you is what they are doing now is they are not -- what they are doing is eliminating the job, outsourcing the entire tech division to a consulting company. making the argument we didn't replace you. we replaced the whole unit by hiring a company to do it instead. and that company they are hiring is bringing their workers from abroad.

it's a loophole they've figured out that we need to close so they can no longer do it that way. >> governor kasich, mr. trump says that legal immigration is producing, quote, lower wages and higher unemployment for u.s. workers. he's calling for a pause on green cards issued to foreign workers. wouldn't that help workers in the u.s.? >> look, i believe in immigration, but it has to be controlled. the simple fact of the matter is i wouldn't be standing here. i'd be maybe running for president of croatia if we didn't have immigration. immigration is something that brings youth and vibrancy and energy to our country. we clearly have to control our borders. we can't have people just walking in. we lock our doors at home at night. the country has to be able to lock its doors as well. so i have a comprehensive plan to deal with this problem of immigration. i would say we have to absolutely finish the wall and guard the border. and if anybody were to come in after that, they are going to have to go back. no excuses because we can't

continue this problem. we ought to have a guest worker program where people come in, work and go home. and i think at the same time for the 11.5 million who are here, then in my view if they have not committed a crime, since they've been here, they get a path to legalization. not to citizenship. i believe that that program can pass the congress in the first 100 days. but let's not lose sight of the fact that the whole key to the future of america is strong economic growth with common sense regulation, lower taxes and a balanced budget. we can have a rising tide that lifts all the workers in america, all the people who are citizens of america if we'll just follow the formula that works that i used in washington and, guess what, i've used in ohio to grow over 400 private sector jobs since i've been governor. >> mr. trump, i do want to come to you. will you also in your answer address how long you think that pause would be and what that pause would look like. >> first of all, i know the h1b very well.

it's something that i frankly use and shouldn't be allowed to use. we shouldn't have it. very, very bad for workers. and second of all, it's very important to say, well, i'm a businessman and i have to do what i have to do. when it's sitting there waiting for you, but it's very bad. it's very bad for business. and it's bad for our workers and unfair for our workers. very important, the disney workers endorsed me, as you probably read. i got a full endorsement because they are the ones that said, and they had a news conference and said he's the only one that's going to be able to fix it, because it is a mess. for a period of a year to two years we have to look back and see, just answer the second part of your question, where we are, where we stand, what's going on. we have to sort of take a strong, good hard look and come up with plans that work. and we're rushing into things, and we're just -- we're leading with the chin. we're leading with people that don't know what they are doing in terms of our leadership. i'd say a minimum of one year, maybe two years. >> senator cruz, i want to bring

you in very quickly on this. the united states averages about a million new permanent legal immigrants a year and hundreds of thousands more guest workers. what should the right level be? >> we need to redefine our legal immigration system so that it meets the needs of the american economy. right now we're bringing in far too many low skilled workers. what that is doing is driving down the wages of hard-working americans. our system isn't working. then on top of that, we have a system that's allowing in millions of people to be here illegally and the answer to that, i've laid out a very detailed immigration plan on my website. we're going to build a wall, triple the border patrol. we're going to end sanctuary cities. we're going to cut off federal taxpayer funds to any city that defies federal immigration laws. we're going to end welfare benefits for anyone who is here illegally. and the thing to understand, stephen, we can solve these problems.

it's not that we don't know how to do it. it's that we're lacking the political will. neither of the parties in washington wants to do this. the democrats support illegal immigration because they view those illegal imp grants as potential voters and far too many of the republicans are doing the bidding of wall street and the special interest and they view it as cheap labor. we need leadership that works for the men and women of this system and a system that takes care of the jobs of the working men and women of this country. >> do you want to weigh in? >> i would add when you talk about the millions of green cards coming in, those aren't workers at all. they are just coming in primarily based on family connection. my parents came in 1956. i acknowledge that my parents came to the u.s. on a family-based system. the problem is nothing looks like it did 60 years ago. the 21st century economy is not creating enough jobs for people that don't have skills. when my parents came, they had a very limited education. my father stopped going to school when he was 9 years old because his mother died and he had to work.

he'd work the next 70 years of his life and never go back to school. i'm grateful every day that america welcomed them. but today in the 21st century, 60 years later, finding jobs when you don't have skills is very important. we need to move to a merit based system of immigration. particularly on green cards. the primary criteria for bringing someone from abroad should be, what skills do you have? what business are you going to open? what investment are you going to make? what job are you going to be able to do when you arrive in the united states? >> education, obviously, plays a large role when it comes to jobs and the economy. the united states has long been falling behind others in the industrialized world. american students rank 27th out of 34 countries in math and 17th in reading. mr. trump, you've called the education standards known as common core a disaster. what are your specific objections to common core? >> education through washington, d.c. i don't want that. i want local education. i want the parents, and i want

all of the teachers and i want everybody to get together around a school and to make education great. and it was very interesting. i was with dr. ben carson today, who is endorsing me, by the way, tomorrow morning, and he is -- we were talking. we spoke for over an hour on education. he has such a great handle on it. he wants competitive schools and a lot of different things that are terrific, including charter schools that the unions are fighting like crazy. but charter schools work and work very well. there are a lot of things. i'm going to have been very involved with education, something that's an expertise of him. >> to clarify, the common core standards were developed by the states. states and localities voluntarily adopt them and they coming up with their own curricula to meet those standards. when you say education by washington, d.c., what do you mean. >> but it's been taken over by the federal government. it was originally supposed to be that way and certainly sounds better that way but it's all been taken over by the

bureaucrats in washington and they are not interested in what's happening in miami or florida in many cases. in some cases they would be. they are more interested in their paycheck and the big bureaucracy than taking care of the children. >> governor kasich, you've called opposition to common core hysteria. what's your response to grassroots conservatives who do not agree with you? >> all i'm in favor of in ohio is high standards. first of all, i would take 125 federal education programs, put them in four buckets and send them back to the states. i've been working on this for many, many years. secondly, jake, in our state, the state school board sets the standards. and we want high standards because we have not always had high standards, unfortunately. they set the standards and the local school boards develop the curriculum. not only did we have that in the law. we reasserted it in the law. and we also want parental advisers in the local school district so that in fact, you know, frankly, education has to be run at the school board level

with a little guidance from the state. now on top of that, you want to talk about the 21st century, what we need to do with our kids? we need to start connecting them to the real world. we need to be training them for the jobs of the 21st century, not the jobs of 20 years ago. we need vocational education starting in the seventh grade where kids can get that kind of education that can take them to college but all the way through their k through 12 they ought to be connected with the real -- with real-world jobs. frankly what ought to happen is we ought to get them to pursue their god-given talents and connect them with the things that give them passion. and that's exactly what's we're doing in ohio. combined with mentoring programs to talk to kids about what their future can be. so let me be clear -- local control, obviously, high state standards. that's what it is in the state of ohio. >> senator cruz, you object to common core. governor kasich says local school boards developing local curriculum to meet higher standards. what's wrong with that? >> common core is a disaster.

and if i am elected president in the first days as president, i will direct the department of education that common core ends that day. now let me tell you why you can do that. it's easy to talk about the problem but you have to understand the solutions. the obama administration has abused executive power enforcing common core on the states. it is used raced to the top funds to effectively blackmail and force the states to adopt common core. the one silver lining of obama abusing executive power is that everything done with executive power can be undone with executive power. and i intend to do that. beyond that, though, jake, i intend to work to abolish the federal department of education and send education back to the states and back to the local governments. and let me say finally, the most important reform we can do in education after getting the federal government out of it is expand school choice. expand charter schools and home

schools and private schools and vouchers and scholarships and give every child, african-american, hispanic, every child in need an opportunity to access to a quality education. >> let's move on to another topic of particular interest here in florida. florida has the highest percentage of seniors in the country. there are 3.1 million senior citizens here who receive social security benefits, and they are very interested in hearing what you candidates intend to do to keep social security going for future generations. let me turn to dana bash. >> seniority rubio, you argue americans your age must have an honest conversation about making social security sustainable. for people under 55, you want to raise the retirement age and also reduce benefits for wealthier americans. so what should the new retirement age be, and how much will those benefits be cut? >> let me say that you are right. there are about 3 million seniors in florida, with social security and medicare. one of them is my mother who happens to be here today. i'm against any changes to social security that are bad for my mother. and we don't have to make any changes for them.

but anyone who tells you that social security scan stay the way it is, is lying. any politician that goes around saying we don't have to do anything. all we have to do is raise a few taxes or leave it the way it is they aren't being honest. social security will go bankrupt and bankrupt the country with it. it requires people younger, like myself, people 30 years away from retirement, to accept that our social security is going to work differently than it did for my parents. for example, instead of retiring at 67, the way i'm supposed to retire, i'd have to retire at 68. if i were still in the senate, i'd be one of the youngest people there. if i made a lot of money, my social security benefit will not grow as fast as someone who made less money. meds care could become the option of using my meds care benefit to buy a private plan i like. medicare advantage does that now. these are not unreasonable things to ask for someone who is 30 years away from retirement if it means leaving the program undisturbed for those on it now or about to be on it and making

sure we do not bankrupt our country and that this system still exists when i retire or when my children retire. >> the question was specifics, the though. made your plan very clearly about generally what you want to do. how high would the retirement age go and how much would you cut -- >> someone my age would retire at 68. we'd allow the retirement age to increase until it hits 70. so my children would retire at 70. i'd retire at 68. a graduating scale over a period of time. i'm talking about people like myself and ted who are 45 years old, years away from retirement. people on it now, we don't have to change it at all. if we don't do anything, we'll have a debt crisis. it's not a question of if. it's a question of when. in less than five years, only 17% of our budget will remain discretionary. 83% of the budget in less than five years will be spent on medicare, medicaid, the interest

on the debt. all of it will be eaten up by that. that's a debt crisis. and it will be debilitating to our economy and our children deserve better than to inherit a debt crisis. >> mr. trump, you don't want to raise the retirement age or cut benefits. unless adjustments are made, social security is projected to run out of money within 20 years. so specifically, what would you do to stop that from happening? >> first of all, i want you to understand the democrats, and i've watched them very intensely, even though it's a very, very boring thing to watch, that the democrats are doing nothing with social security. they are leaving it the way it is. they want to increase it. they want to actually give more. and that's what we're up against. whether we like it or not, that's what we're up against. i'll do everything within my power not to touch social security, to leave it the way it is, to make this country rich again, bring back our jobs, get rid of deficits, get rid of waste, fraud and abuse which is rampant in this country.

rampant. totally rampant. and it's my absolute intention to leave social security the way it is. not increase the age and to leave it as is. you have 22 years, you have a long time to go. it's not long in terms of what we're talking about, but it's still a long time to go. and i want to leave social security as is. i want to make our country rich again so we can afford it. i want to bring back our jobs. i want to do things that will make us -- that will bring back gdp. as an example, gdp was 0 essentially for the last two quarters. if that ever happened in china you would have had a depression like nobody has ever seen. they go down to 7%, 8% and it's a national tragedy. we're at zero. we've lost our jobs. we've lost everything. we're losing everything. our jobs are gone. our businesses are being taken out of the country. i want to make america great again and leave social security as is. we're going to get rid of waste, fraud abuse and bring back business.

>> senator rubio, you want to get in. i want to follow up with mr. trump. you are talking about waste, fraud and abuse. an independent bipartisan organization, the committee for a responsible federal budget, says improper payments like you are talking about, that would only save about $3 billion. but it would take $150 billion to make social security solvent. how would you find another $147 million? >> we're the policemen of the world. we take care of the entire world. we'll have a stronger military, much stronger. our military is depleting. we take care of germany. we take care of saudi arabia. we take care of japan. we take care of south korea. every time this maniac from north korea does anything, we immediately send our ships. we get virtually nothing. we have 28,000 soldiers on the line between north korea and south korea. we have so many places. saudi arabia was making a billion dollars a day, and we were getting virtually nothing to protect them.

we are going to be in a different world. we're going to negotiate real deals now. and we're going to bring the wealth back to our country. we owe $19 trillion. we're going to bring wealth back to our country. >> senator rubio, will that be enough to save social security? >> no. you've outlined why. the numbers don't add up. when i ran for senate i came out and said we'd have to make changes to social security. people know it's the truth here in florida. fraud is not enough. certainly let's wipe out the fraud. as you said, it won't add up. you already gave those numbers. on foreign aid i hear that all the time as well. i'm against any sort of wasting money on foreign aid. it's less than 1% of our federal budget. the numbers don't add up. we can't tip toe around this. fraud and abuse. let's get rid of fraud and abuse and be more careful about how we spend foreign aid. you still have hundreds of billions of dollars of deficit you'll have to make up. if we do not do it, we will have a debt crisis.

not to mention a crisis of social security and medicare. both parties have taken far too long to deal with it. it's one of the major issues confronting america. it's barely been asked in any of these debates. we have to deal with it or we'll have to explain to our children why they inherited this disaster. >> senator rubio says your numbers don't add up. what's your response? senator rubio says your numbers don't add up. what's your response, mr. trump? >> i'm just saying very simply we have a country that i've never seen anything like it. i've been going over budgets and looking at budgets. we don't bid things ot. we don't bid out the drug industry, pharmaceutical industry. they don't go out to bid. they just pay almost as if you walk into a drug store. that's what they are paying. the reason is they have a fantastic lobby. they take care of all the senators, the congressmen. they have great power and don't bid out. the military is never properly bid. we go out to military bids, it's not properly bid.

and the people that sell us the product are oftentimes the president we don't want only because that particular company has political juice, okay? i'm self-funding my campaign. nobody is going to be taking care of me. i don't want anybody's money. i will tell you something. we'll go out to bid in every facet of our government. we're going to save a fortune. >> senator cruz, you advocate allowing younger workers to put some of their social security taxes into personal accounts. what do you say to critics who say that market volatility means that this is a disastrous proposal? >> number one, we need to see responsibility. social security right now is careening towards insolvency, and it's irresponsible. and any politician that doesn't step forward and address it is not being a real leader. we need to see political courage to take this on and save and strengthen social security. and as president, what i will do for seniors, for anyone at or near retirement, there will be no changes whatsoever. every benefit will be protected

to the letter. but for younger workers, we need to gradually raise the retirement age. for younger workers, change the rate of growth of benefits. i and we need to have for younger workers that a portion of your tax payments are in personal accounts like a 401(k) that you own that you control that you can pass on to your kids and grandkids. and one of the things that is critically important. we've got lots of challenges in the world. but the answer can't just be wave a magic wand and say problem go away. you have to understand the problems. you have to have real solutions. it's like government spending. it is very easy. hillary clinton says she'll cut waste, fraud and abuse. if only we had smarter people in washington, that would fix the problem. you know what? that is the statement of a liberal who doesn't understand government is the problem.

here's my philosophy. the less government, the more freedom. the fewer bureaucrats, the more prosperity. and there are bureaucrats in washington right now who are killing jobs and i'll tell you, i know who they are. i will find them and i will fire them. >> did you justice just compare donald trump to hillary clinton on this issue? >> i will let donald speak for himself. but there's a reason, in my campaign i've set out a specific spending cut plan. $500 billion. i've specified five major agencies i'd eliminate, 25 programs. and dana, you know why political candidates don't do that? because when you do that, the lobbyists attack you. when you specify the programs you would eliminate, then you get attacked. let's talk for example back in iowa the first primary. when i went to iowa and campaigned against ethanol mandates, everyone said that was political suicide. you can't take on ethanol in iowa. and my opponents on this stage not only didn't do the same. they attacked me and even

promised to expand corporate welfare. if we're going to stop bankrupting our kids and grandkids, you have to be willing to take on the lobbyist which means not just some fanciful waste, fraud and abuse but specifying these are the programs i'll eliminate. >> mr. trump, would you like to respond? >> if you look back to iowa, ted did change his view and his stance on ethanol quite a bit at the end. not full on, but he did change his view in the opens of maybe doing well. and you know, i think everybody knows that. it was a front page story all over the place, and he did make a change. >> senator cruz? >> listen, if you are fed up with washington, the question you ought to be asking is who is willing to take on washington? it's easy to have language, i'm fed up with the corruption in washington.

but if you have a candidate who has been funding liberal democrats and funding the washington establishment, it's very hard to imagine how suddenly this candidate is going to take on washington. when i stood up and led the fight against obamacare, washington was furious and attacked me, but i did it because i was honoring my commitment to the hard-working men and women of this country who are losing their jobs because of obamacare. when i led the fight against amnesty, it's because i was standing with the people against washington. and if you want to tell people you're going to stand against washington, the question we should ask is, when have you ever stood up to the lobbyists in washington? >> mr. trump, i'll let you respond because he mentioned you. >> first of all, ted was in favor of amnesty. no question about that. and sheriff joe arpaio recently endorsed me and there's nobody tougher on the borders than sheriff joe. and senator jeff sessions, an

incredible man, also endorsed me. there's nobody that knows more about the borders than senator jeff sessions. i would say this. we're all in this together. we're going to come up with solutions. we're going to find the answers to things. and so far i cannot believe how civil it's been up here. >> governor kasich, let's get back to social security. you told the voter in new hampshire to, quote, get over cuts to social security benefits because you have a reform plan and that is just the reality you say that is out there. why is cutting social security payments the solution? >> first of all, we hear about taking on washington. i took on washington and i won. i actually got the budget balanced when i was a member of the congress, the chairman of the budget committee. we paid down a half a trillion dollars of the national debt. we also balanced the budget four years in a row, and we were just growing jobs like crazy, and the wage issue was not even an issue then.

i also had a plan in 1999 to save social security and take the $5 trillion projected surplus and not only have social security for our young people but also to give them private accounts. there are more 18-year-olds who believe they have a better chance of seeing a ufo than a social security check and a lot of seniors who are very nervous. i have a plan that doesn't require raising the retirement age. if you've had wealth throughout your lifetime, when the time comes to be on social security, you'll still get it. it will simply be less. and for those that depend on that social security, they'll get their full benefit. we don't have to monkey around with the retirement age. i've done all this before. this is not a theory. do you have to take on entitlement programs to balance a budget? yes. doesn't mean you have to cut them. it means you need to innovate them, the way we do in the 21st century. not only did we have a balanced budget in washington, but when i went to ohio, we were $8 billion in the hole and now $2 billion in the black.

we're up 400,000 jobs and i want to go back with the same formula to beat the washington insiders again. and i will get it done, and this country will be much stronger economically as a result. >> thank you, governor. >> let's take a broader look at the republican party now. mr. trump, one of the concerns your opponents have expressed throughout the course of this campaign is the notion that in their estimation you hold views that are at direct odds with republican party tradition. how are you looking to fundamentally change the republican party as its potential leader? what should the republican party stand for in 2016? >> well, first of all, i don't really think that. i think i hold views that are similar to many of the people. we are more inclusive. if you look at the polls and the millions of people that have been pouring into the polls, it's the biggest story. you look at all these people coming in. something is happening. i am different in one primary respect. and that's trade. i feel that we have had horrible

negotiators. horrible trade deals. the jobs in this country are disappearing. and especially the good jobs. you look at the recent jobs reports, which are really done so that presidents and politicians look good. all of these people looking for jobs, when they give up, they go home, they give up and they are considered statistically employed. so that's that. but i will say, trade deals are absolutely killing our country. the devaluations of their currencies by china and japan and many, many other countries, and we don't do it because we don't play the game. and the only way we'll be able to do it is we'll have to do taxes unless they behave. if you don't tax certain products coming into this country from certain countries that are taking advantage of the united states and laughing at our stupidity, we're going to continue to lose businesses and we're going to continue to lose jobs. and if you look at the average worker over the last 12 years, their salary and pay have gone down, not up. it's gone down.

and i think that's why there's been such an outpouring of love to what i'm saying. >> senator cruz, donald trump has so far won 35% of the vote. those people are signing up to his vision of the republican party. what do you think is wrong with that vision? >> well, donald is right, for example. he was just talking about international trade. he's right about the problems. but his solutions don't work. for example, his solution on international trade, he proposed earlier a 45% tariff on foreign goods. he backed away from that immediately and may come back with a different number tonight. i don't know where he'll be tonight. but i'll tell you what happens. we've seen prior presidential candidates who propose tariffs. and the effect of a 45% tariff would be when you go to the store, to walmart, when you are shopping for your kids, the prices you pay go up 45%. but not only that. when you put those in place because a tariff is a tax on you, the american people, but

the response is that the countries we trade with put in their own tariffs. a much better solution that works is the tax plan i've laid out which would enable our exports to be tax-free would tax our imports, would not raise prices for americans and would not result in reciprocal tariffs. >> thank you. >> fix the problem, and that's what is missing from what donald says. >> mr. trump, we'll let you respond. >> the 45% tax is a threat. it was not a tax, it was a threat. it will be a tax if they don't behave. take china as an example. i have many friends, great manufacturers that want to go into china. they can't. china won't let them. we talk about free trade. it's not free trade. it's stupid trade. china dumps everything they have over here. no tax, no nothing, no problems, no curfews, no anything. we can't get into china. i have the best people, manufacturers, they can't get in. when they get in, they have to pay a tremendous tax. the 45% is a threat that if they don't behave if they don't

follow the rules and regulations so that we can have it equal on both sides, we will tax you. doesn't have to be 45%. could be less. but it has to be something because our country and trade and deals and most importantly our jobs are going to hell. >> senator cruz? >> jake, let me be clear what donald just said. he said that 45% tax is a threat. and mind you, you are paying the tax. it's not china that pays the tax. it's you the working men and women. so ask yourself at home, how is this helping you? if your wages have been stagnant for 20 years, if you can't pay the bills, how does it help you to have a president come and say, i'm going to put a 45% tax on diapers when you buy diapers, on automobiles when you buy automobiles, on clothing when you buy clothing. that hurts you. it's why we've got to get beyond rhetoric of china bad and actually get to how do you solve the problem because this solution would hurt jobs and

hurt hard-working taxpayers in america. >> okay -- >> jake, i have to say, honestly, it's just the opposite. what will happen if they don't behave, we will put on a tax of some amount, and it could be a large amount, and we will start building those factories or those plants. instead of in china, we'll build them here and people will buy product from here rather than buying it through china where we're being ripped off. and we have a $505 billion trade deficit right now. so we'll build our factories here, and we'll make our own products. and that's the way it should be done. and the way we've been doing it for the last long period of time is our country -- our country is in serious, serious trouble. it's a bubble. and it's going to explode. believe me. >> all right. we're going to take a very quick break. when we come back, we'll have much more of this republican presidential debate from the university of miami right after this. stay with us.

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welcome back to the cnn republican presidential debate in miami, florida. mr. trump, let me start with you. last night you told cnn, quote, islam hates us. did you mean all 1.6 billion muslims? >> i mean a lot of them. i mean a lot of them. >> do you want to clarify the comment at all? >> i've been watching the debate today. they're talking about radical islamic terrorism or radical islam. i will tell you there's something going on that maybe you don't know about, maybe a lot of other people don't know about, but there's tremendous hatred. and i will stick with exactly what i said to anderson cooper. >> senator rubio, your supporter, republican senator jeff sessions, said in response to mr. trump's comment last night, i'm sorry -- senator jeff flake, i apologize, your supporters, said in response to that comment, republicans are

better than this. do you agree? >> let me say, i know that's a lot of people find appeal in the things donald says. because he says what people wish they could say. the problem is presidents can't just say anything they want. it has consequences here and around the world. and so let me give you one. two days ago, i met this extraordinary couple who are on furlough because they are missionaries in bangladesh. it's a very tough place to be a missionary. it's muslim. their safety and security relies upon friendly muslims that live alongside them that may not convert but protect them and look out for them. and their mission field really are muslims looking to convert to christianity. they tell me today they have a hostile environment because the news is coming out that in america leading political figures are saying that america doesn't like muslims. this is a real impact. there's no doubt that radical islam is a danger in the world. i can also tell you if you go to any national cemetery, especially arlington, you'll see crescent moons there. if you go anywhere in the world you'll see american men and

women serving us in uniform that are muslims. and they love america. and as far as i know, no one on this stage has served in uniform in the united states military. anyone out there that has the uniform of the united states on and is willing to die for this country is someone that loves america. no matter what their religious background may be. >> mr. trump? >> marco talks about consequences. well, we've had a lot of consequences, including airplanes flying into the world trade center, the pentagon and could have been the white house. there have been a lot of problems. now you can say what you want, and you can be politically correct if you want. i don't want to be so politically correct. i like to solve problems. we have a serious, serious problem of hate. there is tremendous hate. there is tremendous hate. we're large portions of a group of people, islam, large portions want to use very, very harsh means.

let me go a step further. women are treated horribly. you know that. you do know that. women are treated horribly, and other things are happening that are very, very bad. now i will say this, there is tremendous hatred. the question was asked, what do you think? i said there is hatred. it would be very easy to say something differently. and everybody would say, oh, isn't that wonderful. >> mr. trump, thank you. >> we better solve the problem before it's too late. >> senator rubio? >> i'm not interested in being politically correct. i'm not interested in being politically correct. i'm interested in being correct. and in order to be correct on this issue, here's the bottom line. we do work. there is islam has a major problem on its hands. it has a significant percentage of its adhere rents, particularly in the sunni faith, but also the shia who have been radicalized and are willing to

fly planes into buildings and kill innocent people. there is no doubt about that. it is also true if you look around the world at the challenges we face, we are going to have to work together with other -- with muslims who do not -- who are not radicals. we'll have to work with the jordan danian kingdom. we're going to have to work with the saudis. we're going have to work with the gulf kingdoms. we'll have to work with the egyptians to defeat the sunni isis. it will take a sunni arab movement to defeat them. we are going to have to work with people in the muslim faith even as islam itself faces a serious problem within it of radicalization. >> thank you. governor kasich? do you think islam hates us? >> no, i don't. i think there is a sect of this radical islam that is really, really serious and poses the greatest threat to us today. there isn't any question. that's why the whole world has to work together to make sure we don't have proliferation of these weapons of mass destruction. but look, i was there when -- and saw it when the egyptian ambassador to the united states was in the rose garden bringing

the arab muslim world to work with us to repel saddam hussein from kuwait. the fact is that if we're going to defeat isis, we're going to have to have these countries. and they are egypt and they are saudi arabia and they are jordan, and they're the gulf states. and we're going to have to have in some way or another aprochpment. with turkey and i think they went in the wrong direction when they rejoined turkey and from joining into the economic sphere of europe. the simple fact of the matter is a lot of these muslims countries can't believe the stuff they see out of people who have distorted their faith. the people who represent radical islam, they want to destroy everything that we're about and other muslims who don't share their view, but at the end of the day, we got to bring the world together, the civilized world, and we all bring with one voice that the people who sit on the fence understand what civilization is and we represent it and equality and hope for everybody. >> thank you, governor kasich.

mr. trump, i want to ask you about something else you said during the course of this campaign. you said the u.s. has to, quote, take out the families of terrorists. when it was pointed out targeting civilians was against the geneva conventions, you said, quote, so they can kill us but we can't kill them? how will you order the military to deal with families of suspected terrorists while abiding by the law? >> first of all, let me go back to the other just for a second. in large mosques all over the middle east, you have people chanting "death to the usa." that does not sound like a friendly act to me. as far as the families are concerned and as far as the law is concerned, we have a law -- this all started with your question on waterboarding. we have a law that doesn't allow right now waterboarding. they have no laws. they have no rules. they have no regulations. they chop off heads, they drown 40, 50, 60 people at a time in big steel cages, pull them up an hour later, everyone dead, and

we're working on a different set of parameters. now, we have to obey the laws, okay, have to obey the laws. but we have to expand those laws because we have to be able to fight on at least somewhat of an equal footing or we will never, ever knock out isis and all of the others that are so bad. we better expand our laws or we're being a bunch of suckers and they are laughing at us. they are laughing at us. believe me. >> senator rubio, would you as president pursue a policy of targeting the families of suspected terrorists? >> no, of course not and we don't have to in order to defeat terrorists. the way you defeat terrorists is pretty straight forward. it's difficult to do, but it has to be done. when i'm president of the united states, the best intelligence agencies in the world that right now have been hamstrung, they're going to find terrorists. and the best military which needs to be rebuilt because barack obama is gutting our

military, he is going to leave us with the smallest army since the end of world war ii and the smallest navy in a century and the smallest air force we've ever had. we're going to rebuild that military and that military will rebuild them. and if we capture them alive, they will go to guantanamo bay, cuba. and find out everything we know and do so legally. >> senator cruz, you talked about changing the rules of engagement of battle against isis. would that include targeting the families of suspected terrorists? >> no, of course not, we've never targeted innocent civilians and we're not going to start now. listen, jake, i understand. people are scared. for seven years we faced terrorist attacks, and president obama lectures americans on islamophobia. that is maddening. the answer is not to yell china bad, muslims bad. you have to understand the nature of the threats we're facing and how you deal with them.